The new GPS system introduced with the latest update has started to cause constant signal instability. Now, with the Yarbo in base, it’s orange most of the time, saying it’s disconnected despite indicating 23-24 satellites locked on. I seem to have noticed that this often happens when the Yarbo is in base near the data center. When it’s out working, the signal returns to green and stable. I don’t know if it’s just a coincidence. However, with the orange signal, I can’t run the work program or install or reinstall the docking station because it requires a green signal. Since I haven’t moved anything, the signal should be as strong and stable as before.I forgot to say that the color on the datacenter is a solid green.
4 Likes
It’s probably the introduction of the quality metric. You can have strong GPS but poor quality. Yarbo now better can recognize quality or noise issues.
This helps explain it some. What does your diagnostic screen look like?
2 Likes
Very similar to Wi-Fi. I’ve run into this countless times. A business is having connectivity issues and says that Wi-Fi is strong in an area per their device icon but when an analyzer tool is used to take a look at what’s really going on in the Radio Frequency (RF) space, it’s kind of a mess with interference and or noise which negatively affects the signal quality.
3 Likes
Its amazing - now a huge chunk of us have poor GPS quality. I am a pilot and shoot GPS approaches all the time that relies on higher accuracy. Some of these airports are in the middle of no where. The quality of the GPS overhead is here, this thing just can’t read it. I have a handheld GPS that is a backup for aviation - signal is fine with great accuracy.
So if a big chunk of us now have poor GPS Quality with blue sky above now what? Toss the equipment? Let it go into the NGZ and fall into the pool? Drive into traffic? How does this company even survive if this logic is the case? Do they need to come and do an onsite in person field survey as you are suggesting before a unit is purchased? Or perhaps have better hardware and gain antenna? What about the software? Its wacamo, this update will fix X but then it creates Y. This problem is being reported across a lot of channels - its real and this oh well, darn shucks its just poor signal isn’t cutting it. We can’t all live with a faraday cage overhead.
11 Likes
Yep. There is a precedence and they don’t have it correct.
I will say, though, that at least for me, it’s the boundary run that screws up. At least for now, the core has not gone on walkabout during the zigzag.
The boundary has its own logic. We know this because it has its own DR setting. And at least for me, boundary + collision avoidance = trainwreck. Happens with “gentle contact” as well as “moderate”. Next run, I’ll try a perimeter with DR disabled. That’s a couple days away, however.
Meanwhile, workaround: Cobb it.
Ensure that a problem area has its own job.
Ensure that the boundary is set to be done before zigzag.
Set the starting percentage to after the boundary laps. Some of the area will be skipped. Too bad.
I’m not thrilled with it, but that might generally keep the core out of the street, out of the 12 foot ditch, out of the pool, and not destroy thousands of dollars worth of “you damaged my stuff.”
Nevermind warranty damage to the M1 from hitting out-of-bounds rocks and stuff.
They will figure this out, I know this. I just hope it isn’t another 19 month sprint.
4 Likes
you can drop that boundary DR way down vice disable PPVS (if you haven’t done this already).
In my opinion, this system should be introduced. NTRIP (Network Transport of RTCM via Internet Protocol)
Was the state 2 when you first opened the app while it was charging? If so, open a ticket. It shouldn’t do that or take very long to go green. Should be state 4 already.
FYI RTK is NTRIP. Yarbo is already using this technology. They will be releasing the ability sometime soon to use public NTRIP which will let you use a public reference station instead of your local one. In other words someone else’s data center. You still need your data center for HaLow, or you need strong WiFi or cellular to get internet access to the rover to get there.
1 Like
the problem that turns green and then orange green does not remain stable
1 Like
If RTK is solid status 4 and quality is what is fluctuating between -0.5 (yellow) and +0.5 (green) then this is normal and expected if there is a lot of GPS noise and interference where the rover is located. This shouldn’t impact your ability to start a plan from what I’ve seen. RTK status of 2 would. Reinstalling the docking station does in fact need a green signal (good RTK status of 4 and good quality). Quality is a new metric to help show GPS trouble spots. I’ve seen some posts and a recommendation from support, if it’s causing you trouble, you can try turning off PPVS and see if that helps. This will disable the quality metric and DR though.
2 Likes
OK, great advice, but the fact remains that the signal strength needs to be improved to prevent interference if necessary… Let me give you an example. I didn’t have any stability issues before, but when the sky was covered in clouds or heavy clouds passed over the data center, I started to experience instability or even signal loss. What happens when it snows or is foggy?
2 Likes
What is a lot? What kind of environment should we have? Yes, trees can cause GPS signal bounce, ie noise. Are we expected to cut all trees down to make it work? Wait, what about our house - that will bounce the signal. Has this moved from a residential mower to an agricultural product that can only mow a hay field? Well that won’t work, alfalfa is too thick and tall.
This feels like the software might have actually gotten it pretty close this time but now the hardware is a problem.
3 Likes
You didn’t think you had stability issues before and neither did the rover. This could lead to a false good GPS reading and send it out of bounds thinking it was somewhere it actually wasn’t. The quality feature was introduced to help detect these situations. This is why it feels like GPS is unstable now. Instead of being oblivious to it, it is now more aware. I’ve watched my rover be in one spot mowing on the app with green GPS, lose GPS, pause to wait for GPS to recover and then shift 20FT immediately to somewhere else in the yard to where it actually was prior to the introduction of the quality feature. I use vision (moderate bypass) in this area so that it doesn’t run into the woods accidentally if that happens. Can it still happen even with this new feature? Yes, it can. It is hard to prevent multipath errors. But, I have seen this almost vanish and when it does happen, DR kept it on course and it only shifts a few feet now.
These are the hazards of relying solely on GPS. Environmental factors such as clouds, fogs, solar storms, etc can have a negative impact on the quality of the signal. Sure, GPS signal always gets through but you have to have a lot of good signal and a high number of good precision (L2) satellites to achieve the cm level accuracy that is trying to be achieved. DR is the first step towards filling the gap in those problem areas and poor environmental conditions. The next step is VIO. This will use the cameras to monitor movement and help keep things on course when GPS is lost. The ultimate goal is to flip the script and not have to rely or need GPS/RTK at all (VSLAM).
I have spots in my yard that even during bright and sunny days lose GPS near the boundaries or out in the open. Apparently, this is a known phenomenon with GPS when the sun is behind the satellites. Yarbo stops and waits for signal to recover. With DR, it often didn’t stop and if it did, it recovered much quicker. It has improved my experience with the mower. Before, depending on the time of day I started a plan, it would sit waiting for a long time. It hardly ever sits now. The fact that it instantly shows you medium and poor GPS spots has made me more aware of the GPS trouble spots in my yard. Before it seemed very random and what values were available to me in the diagnostics all looked perfect. It was very frustrating not knowing why it was paused. Moving the rover would get it going again, but often to stop somewhere else.
I don’t think cutting down trees is an option or not mowing up against a house. I have spoken to people that couldn’t do so before, and with DR now can. But, it’s not perfect. I think it will continue to evolve. It certainly isn’t industrial grade hardware that costs tens of thousands of dollars and that is tuned and calibrated with giant matched amplified antennas. I don’t think that is fair to expect that of this hardware.
If people are having GPS issues, it’s usually only a temporary thing. If it is persistent over time (and not consistently the same time of day), then it could mean that there is either a hardware issue (bad cable, antenna or one is loose, etc) or the DC isn’t getting 120 degree clear view of the sky, or the rover isn’t getting enough signal where it is located to maintain enough precision to keep running through the configured DR (loss of RTK GPS) event. Under my heavy tree cover I often have GPS issues and sometimes up against the side of my house. But it depends on the time of day. Satellites are always moving and eventually I don’t have an issue. Most of my very frustrating waiting for GPS days were during major solar storm events.
So all of that to say, check your installation and make sure it’s per the manufacturers recommendations. 7FT of clearance all the way around (DS and DC) and that each of those locations has 120 degree clear view of the sky. That will go a long way to ensuring that when the rover is out and working in a bad spot that it has the most chance of success of making it through that situation. People don’t realize how critical the dock location is to calibration of the unit and for correcting map drift (if it happens).
If your DC has a clear view of the sky and consistently has CNR for 3-4 of the constellations above 40, then I think you should be fine. Same with the docking station location. You want an HDOP of less than 1, L2 of greater than 10, and a quality of 0.9 consistently. If it isn’t, then you may need to relocate the docking station.
For now with the current software, it may continue to stop and wait. If you notice it works better at certain times of the day there, that’s when I would suggest scheduling or running your plans. As they iterate the software, this will become less and less a necessity and hopefully something you don’t ever need to think about again. If the old way worked better for you, disable PPVS beta and hopefully that puts it back to what you were used to and happy with.
6 Likes
@mike1 Maybe the Yarbo isn’t for you or your location.
Amazing - it was fine up to the update. So, I guess the countless people reporting these new issues - some here and ALOT on other social channels just all of a sudden shouldn’t own one or should move now. All this from someone that suggests onsite surveys should be required. Your post inspires me to stop wasting my time on this forum.
And to @bryan.wheeler. If someone is getting on here and complaining about GPS when they don’t have the basics of the installation covered then they have no business. If your DC is in an attic and your dock is inside your garage then yes, start with the basics but that isn’t what people are having issues with. It doesn’t stop and wait. I heads out of bounds when it NEVER did before; not a little but 30 or more feet. Well, now that I think of it you are right it does stop, but now stops out of bounds in the middle of the road. Whats next, it blast through the NGZ to cool itself off in the pool as I am sure that can’t be too far away for someone.
2 Likes
I think the forum is important because it allows for a quick exchange of experiences between customers and the Yarbo team… There’s no need to get discouraged because Yarbo listens, doesn’t hide problems when they arise, and tries to resolve them quickly. Unfortunately, introducing new features at the beginning can create some inconvenience, but I’m confident they’ll resolve them.
3 Likes
I agree, but its filled with the same two people that reply to everything with not much fact or just generic info just to stay in the top 3 every month - whatever that award gets you.
2 Likes
the most important thing is that Yarbo will respond to the problems and solve them.
1 Like
100%! Its the only reason, its just too bad the static jumps in and distracts from the actual issues being reported. For me the GPS issues got resolved not after replacing antennas, wires or any of the other suggestions. It got resolved after I saw someone mention to check if you still had the gasket on under the halo antenna on the core. Once that got removed all was good - then the update came and it has been hit and miss. Not crazy bad but still some pretty odd behavior from time to time. The update isn’t perfect that for sure but I already gave my thoughts on what that might be about. Maybe on the next trip it decides to take into the woods it will rip its antenna off and the replacement I get will have a higher gain on it.
1 Like