User option to change the priority of NTRIP source from cloud to local. Many (probably most) users do not have any need for a cloud-based NTRIP due to Yarbo going out of Halow range. Allow users to prioritize and/or disable cloud-based NTRIP in order to provide lower latency and higher reliability GPS RTK correction data streaming directly form the data center. This should also be the default behavior for any Yarbo that has cellular disabled, as loss of Halow means loss of all connectivity anyway, so there’s no use case where these setups would ever be in a situation where local RTK data isn’t preferred.
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They used to have an offline toggle for the 23 and I’ve been asking for it to be put back for a while.
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Yeah I agree. I dont see why the yarbo wouldnt prefer a local connection back to the base station over a networked one.
What would be really… weird, and I beleive based on your comment and other behaviours I have seen is whats actually happening… is if the yarbo is using the HALOW connection back to the base station.. to then reach out to the internet to get the information.. instead of just getting it directly from the base.
Note I have a 23. but I havent seen the option.
though mayb it was removed when they were working on the 24 app features.
I saw it in the app very early on sometime in October or early November of 2024. It was removed because the switching was made automatic in the firmware.
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That is exactly the normal communication path. The DC creates the RTK correction stream and send it to an NTRIP server hosted in AWS. The rover is connected to the internet through its Halow connection to the DC. The standard operating model is for the Rover to reach out to the NTRIP server in AWS instead of using NTRIP hosted locally on the DC.
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The “Automatic” switchover is exactly the problem. It uses the wrong default by using cloud services first. That means we use the least reliable source by default and incur the failover delay every time there’s a hiccup and it switches.
How do you figure it’s the least reliable when latency is typically 1-2 vs when in local mode it’s 2-3 and sometimes higher?
Don’t misunderstand me, I’d prefer to keep things local as well. However, I’ve watched mine switch seamlessly between HaLow and cellular and not blink. I’ve ran entire areas 100% over cellular without issue.
I definitely want an offline toggle still, but I think for the seamless nature and ease of use they’ve made the right choice of default. Especially with higher latency when local (at least in my experience).
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I’d prefer local as well.
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Quite simple really… The data source (RTK correction stream) is ALWAYS the DC’s own GPS. Please explain to me how adding in required internet connectivity and an AWS cloud hosted NTRIP server adds reliability? Real simple answer, it doesn’t, ever, under any circumstance make data that is sourced from the DC more reliable by adding more points of failure. As for your latency comment, I have no idea what the back-end calculation is when showing that number. It can’t be milliseconds, that would break laws of physics unless you’ve deployed your Yarbo to mow at the AWS datacenter where the NTRIP server you’re connecting to is being hosted. Since latency is an obviously contrived measurement as shown in the app, one would need to know what it means before making any decisive statements about it. I can tell you this much with 100% certainty though, you never reduce latency be adding more distance / network hops between hosts. Your traffic goes through the DC to get anywhere, including the internet unless you’re operating on cellular. Furthermore, I fail to see your point about latency to begin with. When things are working well as far as internet connectivity goes, I don’t have issues either. My point is reliability, not latency. I’ll take 1 extra increment of latency (by whatever calculation is used) over unstable connectivity to the RTK correction stream any day. That 1 extra increment is meaningless as long as its stable and reliable.
I’m glad your switchover is seamless, mine sure isn’t. When internet connectivity gets wonky here, I can watch the rover repeatedly experience work stoppages. My 100% reliable fix when it happens is to sever the DC connection to the internet. Once I do that, everything works perfectly, except I lose the ability to control Yarbo outside of bluetooth range. With 4+ acres, this mower struggles to keep up even though its only 2/3 of what they claim it can do. Add in the recent firmware changes that reduce downhill speed to tortoise levels, and I really can’t afford to have GPS hiccups piling on. This would be really easy for Yarbo to fix by giving users a choice.
Maybe the difference is processing power. AWS vs DC hardware.
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I understand your point about the number of hops, etc and yes it does seem counterintuitive that it would be better in the internet scenario. I can only rely on what the data is telling me and from what I’ve seen. I can only theorize that the DC is much more efficient at streaming to an NTRIP caster vs being an NTRIP server. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that’s also a factor in their default decision. This is what the Yarbo support center says about data latency.
As you can see, there is a difference when data was last received. That can impact accuracy. Probably not enough to matter, but something to at least be aware of. Like I said, I have seen it drift higher than 2-3 in local mode at times.
If you are having internet issues, then yes your switchover will take 60 seconds. That’s the amount of time it takes the rover to failover to local. This is supposed to be quicker in the newer firmware. I cannot confirm or deny this, only that it flips periodically between online and offline mode all the time now.
If you are having intermittent issues with internet, it sucks for sure. Yes, I too have disconnected the LAN side of the POE injector and continued my work plan in local mode without issue. I’ve only had to do this once though.
As for being able to control your Yarbo only through BT in this scenario, enabling cellular should resolve that. At least it did for me.
I want local preference priority choice too. Not saying it shouldn’t be a choice. Just putting it out there why I believe it currently works the way it works.
Choices are always better than no choice. I don’t like the idea of my lawn mower requiring someone else’s servers to run.
If Yarbo as a company ceases to exist I’m not sure Yarbo will be capable of continuing to mow.
Unplug your LAN side port on your POE injector and you may feel better about it working without their servers. Go ahead and do it while it’s running a plan and watch it eventually pause for 60 seconds and then resume.
Turn off the internet may be a better test. If I can keep my infrastructure working (WiFi up with no internet connectivity) and he keeps mowing, I’ll feel better about it.
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The only thing worse than internet reliability at my rural location is cellular coverage, as in there is none whatsoever.
Regarding NTRIP server performance, unless the CPU in the DC is something from a 1980s TI calculator, there’s no reason it would be slower. I run my existing onsite NTRIP from and ESP32 and have just over over 10 millisecond latency to that NTRIP server from anywhere on the property where I have wifi. The math isn’t “mathing” as one might say.
Honestly, my preference would be to just use my own NTRIP and set up my own because its stationary antenna location is actually calibrated, but that’s another thing that has come up and never a clear answer given on if/when it will be possible. If I could do that, problem solved as well.
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It will. Yarbo doesn’t require internet, it just prefers it over using the data directly from the datacenter. Back when I brought this up during the live call we had with their engineering folks, the conversation was around making it more resilient when someone was using the robot in an area where it might roam between Halow and LTE, using the internet based NTRIP server was better because it would remain the same as the rover switched between networks. That all sounds great, but its a situation where they are designing for the edge case and not allowing users to have any say in the matter. Its not a good design philosophy.
Curiouser and curiouser… Why would one run their own NTRIP server?
Let me guess… you have your own guided missile farm. 
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@ken.w.gregory Nope, I set it up because I was working on an Ardupilot-based autonomous mowing solution before Yarbo came out. I have it working with a rebuild of an old Friendly Robotics RL-1000 and had just started on going bigger with a retrofit of a Ryobi Zero Turn when I stumbled onto Yarbo. I put that project on hold, thinking the Yarbo would save me a lot of time and effort.
Maybe I should give some thought to resurrecting that development effort. 
Guided missiles does sound like fun though. 
Groundhogs be warned.
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When you get that working, let me know I have some raccoons I’d like to “relocate”.
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